CONTACTS 

SUBJECTS
Collective IQ
Education System

0604 -
0604 -    ..
0605 - Summary/Objective
0606 -
060601 - Follow up ref SDS 38 0000, ref SDS 37 0000.
060602 -
060603 - Henry Van Eykan presents a strong case for applying Colloquium augment
060604 - capabilities to education. ref SDS 0 8967  Jack Park proposes that the
060605 - Colloquium develop a common ontology to make it easier to manage
060606 - knowledge on the web. ref SDS 0 8044  Eric Armstrong requests sources
060607 - for guiding development.  Jack submits sources indicating that subject
060608 - management is difficult, a Pandora's box. ref SDS 0 3248
060609 -
060611 -  ..
0607 -
0608 -
0609 - Progress
061001 -  ..
061002 - Education Can be Improved Through Augment
061003 -
061004 - Received ref DRT 1 0001 from Henry van Eykan, responding to a letter
061005 - from Erick Armstrong (quoted in part, but not expressly identified,
061006 - nor linked, ref DRT 1 5412) and proposing that the principles of the
061007 - Colloquium be applied to education and, through that, to society at
061008 - large.
061009 -
061010 -
061012 -  ..
061013 - Collective IQ Molded by Early Education, Presents Challenge of Change
061014 -
061015 - Henry comments that the school system casts minds in forms that guide
061016 - values and conduct for a lifetime, which makes the "Collective IQ,"
061017 - hard-to-bend and therefore an obstacle to progress. ref DRT 1 0954
061018 -
061020 -  ..
061021 - Societal DKR Provide Appropriate Control on Encyclopedic Subjects
061022 -
061023 - Henry proposes a societal DKR, something encyclopedic in core set-up,
061024 - but with "formal" subject areas in some form of authorative (but not
061025 - autocratic) control of appropriate bodies, with a means of updating
061026 - that makes for efficient (easy, pleasurable) use, with some graded
061027 - approach to accomodate readers' "learning sets" (i.e. what they
061028 - already have in their very own mental kits), etc., etc. ref DRT 1 2870
061030 -  ..
061031 - This relates in part to review of Prometheus that led to analysis
061032 - showing that literacy declines as a result of cultural pressures that
061033 - arise from fitting in to an organization and performing work as a
061034 - memeber of a team and organization, reviewed on 991108. ref SDS 19
061035 - 7380
061036 -
061037 -      [On 000223 Henry asks how "education" would fit into the system.
061038 -      ref SDS 40 1254]
061039 -
061040 -
061041 -
061042 -
0611 -

SUBJECTS
Pandora's Box Ontology Complex Organic Structure Context Subject Ind

4603 -
460401 -  ..
460402 - Ontology Organizes Information Structures, Like Subject Indexing
460403 -
460404 - Follow up ref SDS 38 8044, ref SDS 37 0765,
460405 -
460406 - Received letter from Jack Park, ref DRT 2 0001, citing a letter from
460407 - Eric Armstrong on 000219 explaining organic subject structures.
460408 - ref SDS 37 0765
460410 -  ..
460411 - Jack suggests building an "ontology" for the web.  He argues that
460412 - without a consistent "ontology" the web might just grow into an
460413 - unsearchable maze of information.  With one, the web might become a
460414 - gigantic knowledge base. ref DRT 2 2993
460415 -
460416 -   Need example of ontology for managing knowledge to save time and
460417 -   improve earnings.
460418 -
460419 -        [On 000607 example given of working ontology turned out to a
460420 -        mistake. ref SDS 55 0001
460422 -         ..
460423 -        [On 000623 Jack proposes concensus ontology for DKR.
460424 -        ref SDS 56 9900
460426 -         ..
460427 -        [On 001011 suggested research project to develop system for
460428 -        managing organic subject structures. ref SDS 58 FZ4F
460430 -         ..
460431 -        [On 001013 notified Jack about SRI initiative. ref SDS 59 5Y4L
460433 -  ..
460434 - Below, Jack relates the difficulty (Pandora's Box) of this task, also
460435 - explained in POIMS. ref SDS 0 7455
460436 -
460437 -      [On 000223 contributor asks how "education" would fit into the
460438 -      system. ref SDS 40 1254]
460439 -
460440 -      [On 000407 listed ontologies as agenda item for project team
460441 -      meetings. ref SDS 50 2752
460443 -       ..
460444 -      [On 000331 discussed subject management with Jack. ref SDS 48
460445 -      1274
460447 -       ..
460448 -      [On 000405 Jack urges DKR project to develop ontologies.
460449 -      ref SDS 49 1548
460451 -  ..
460452 - Jack does not define "ontology" but it sounds like a "taxonomy" that
460453 - classifies existence (see later submission of definition, ref SDS 0
460454 - 6W6N) with keywords for filing documents in records management, and
460455 - from epistomology using keywords for organizing fields of study,
460456 - particularly in formal education, e.g, language, math, science,
460457 - history, music, gardening, engineering, agriculture, government...
460458 -
460459 -        [On 000301 reviewed epistomology. ref SDS 45 7315
460461 -  ..
460462 - Ontology sounds like a primary level of "organic structure" for SDS
460463 - subject indexing that organizes and assembles information into chunks
460464 - of related context showing the chronology of cause and effect, which
460465 - is a more general form of "knowledge" that builds and maintains shared
460466 - meaning, from connectionist theory in cognitive science, reviewed on
460467 - 900303. ref SDS 4 0052 and ref SDS 4 0404
460469 -  ..
460470 - Organic subject structures in SDS are explained on 890523.
460471 - ref SDS 1 SQ5L
460472 -
460474 -      ..
460475 -     Ontology Keywords Classify Conceptualizations Relationships
460476 -
460477 -     Jack later provided a source to a web site for...
460478 -
460479 -                        AIFT OntoServer
460480 -
460481 -               http://ontoserver.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/
460483 -      ..
460484 -     Tom Gruber focuses on Knowledge Management, and says...
460485 -
460486 -               http://ksl-web.stanford.edu/people/gruber/
460487 -
460488 -     ..."ontology" is borrowed from philosophy where it refers to the
460489 -     subject of existence. ref OF 5 5950  He creates ontologies for
460490 -     knowledge sharing, ref OF 5 3692, but says it is not epistomology,
460491 -     ref OF 5 5950  Tom uses "ontology" as a conceptual framework to
460492 -     specify relationships for agents, called a "conceptualization."
460493 -     Knowledge and agent are not defined. ref OF 5 1472  Tom says
460494 -     ontology need not be limited to taxonomy. ref OF 5 1706  Tom
460495 -     designs ontologies to share knowledge by writing definitions of
460496 -     vocabulary for common use among agents.
460497 -
460498 -          [On 080315 oncology to taxonomy, and metadata related to
460499 -          semantic web. ref SDS 81 XT9V
460501 -  ..
460502 - Seems to be an AI effort, and "agents" are software programs.
460503 - ref OF 5 3692  Sounds like part of Widerhold's "mediators" reviewed on
460504 - 940603. ref SDS 6 0786
460506 -  ..
460507 - This fits the initial impression, per above. ref SDS 0 9270
460508 -
460509 -        [On 000606 another defintion of ontology. ref SDS 54 5897
460511 -         ..
460512 -        [On 000311 reviewed epistomology. ref SDS 45 1034 and
460513 -        ref SDS 45 7315
460515 -         ..
460516 -        [On 000405 Jack urges DKR project to develop ontologies.
460517 -        ref SDS 49 1548
460519 -         ..
460520 -        [On 000515 ontology is part of Peirce's philosophy for a
460521 -        semotic theory of knowledge that examins the structure of the
460522 -        world (elements and relations of existence. ref SDS 52 0784
460524 -         ..
460525 -        [On 001130 Jack proposes ontology "engine" to improve SDS by
460526 -        automating links and subjects. ref SDS 61 GK8O
460528 -         ..
460529 -        [On 001214 Jack proposes use cases to develop ontology based on
460530 -        Qualitative Process Theory (QPT). ref SDS 62 0001
460532 -      ..
460533 -     Another source, Roger Clarke......
460534 -
460535 -                       Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au
460536 -
460537 -     ....with the Department Computer Science, Australian National
460538 -     University....
460539 -
460540 -           http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/SOS/Know.html
460542 -      ..
460543 -     ...explains "ontology" in relation to defining "knowledge," as....
460544 -
460545 -         .... the study of what exists. The opposing views are
460546 -         'materialism', which holds that anything that exists can be
460547 -         detected through the senses, and 'idealism', which says that
460548 -         everything exists in the mind, and that the 'real world' that
460549 -         we think we see is only a shared idea.  ... non-philosophers
460550 -         find a compromise, recognising both external realities (the
460551 -         secular world) and internal mind-stuff (the spiritual world).
460553 -  ..
460554 - This fits the initial impression, per above. ref SDS 0 9270
460556 -  ..
460557 - Jack recommends the DKR design process consider using an interlingua
460558 - (artificial international language for science developed from 1924 -
460559 - 1951) a common ontology on which all users can base their actions.
460560 - Creating node types on the fly, IMHO, set out in Eric's letter on
460561 - 000219, ref SDS 37 0765, flies against the winds of usability.
460562 - ref DRT 2 1711
460564 -  ..
460565 - On 990415 this was one of the deliverables for the NSF project.
460566 - ref SDS 17 1610 and ref SDS 17 5124
460568 -  ..
460569 - Yesterday, Eric lists "organization" as one of several features for
460570 - managing documents and references submitted to the Colloquium.
460571 - ref SDS 38 8044  Jack's suggestion seems to advance that objective.
460572 -
460574 -     ..
460575 -    Planning and Assignments for Ontology
460576 -
460577 -    Eric submitted ref DRT 3 0001 concuring with Jack's recommendation,
460578 -    and setting out planning and research questions, ref DRT 3 2964,
460579 -    as follows...
460580 -
460581 -     • Who/what is pursuing the goal of "an ontology for the Web"?
460583 -        ..
460584 -     • Which of the ontology references in the list Jack submitted
460585 -       yesterday, ref DRP 14 3248, would Jack reccommend most highly?
460586 -       ref SDS 38 2968
460588 -        ..
460589 -       Are there others you prefer?
460591 -        ..
460592 -       Any good books?
460593 -
460594 -         [On 000407 listed ontologies as agenda item for project team
460595 -         meetings. ref SDS 50 2752
460596 -
460598 -     ..
460599 -    Keywords Ontology Pandora's Box Dilemma Organizing Complexity
460600 -    Knowledge Management Dilemma Organizing Complexity into Summary
460601 -
460602 -    Jack Park responded to Eric, ref DRT 4 0001, recommending the
460603 -    work of...
460604 -
460605 -                            Brian Gaines
460606 -
460607 -    ...ref DRT 4 4320, especially at
460608 -
460609 -           http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KAW/
460610 -
460611 -    ...Jack reports access problems to this site.
460613 -     ..
460614 -    Jack cites projects like
460615 -
460616 -                          Sysiphis
460617 -
460618 -    ...and many others, most of which have underlying a notion of an
460619 -    ontology.
460620 -
460622 -     ..
460623 -    Jack's current favorite book is
460624 -
460625 -                        John F. Sowa
460626 -                        Knowledge Representation (1999).
460628 -     ..
460629 -    Jack further suggests work by Robert Rosen...
460630 -
460631 -          http://views.vcu.edu/~mikuleck/rosen.htm
460632 -
460633 -    ...and back up to Don Mikulecky's home page to get even deeper
460634 -    into discussions regarding knowledge representation in truly
460635 -    complex domains. ref DRT 4 4324
460636 -
460638 -     ..
460639 -    Ontology Context Management with Granular Subject Indexing
460640 -    Knowledge Management Organization to Make Sense of Complexity
460641 -    Pandora's Box Dilemma Organizing Complexity Ontology Keywords
460642 -    Organize Daily Information Difficult Pandora's Box of Complexity
460643 -
460644 -    Jack feels the OHS/DKR project should develop technology that helps
460645 -    people make sense of complex daily working information.  OHS/DKR
460646 -    technology can create knowledge representation, which is summarized
460647 -    by a new term, "ontology," and seems to use keywords that organize
460648 -    the record of daily work into classifications, categories, topics,
460649 -    etc., cited in Jack's earlier letter this evening, reported above,
460650 -    ref SDS 0 9270, and explained further in a second letter.
460651 -    ref SDS 0 6W6N
460653 -     ..
460654 -    Jack like's Rosen's book "Life Itself."  He says, "Tough read,
460655 -    though.  If you choose to go there, you're opening up what I
460656 -    consider to be the pandora's box of everything Doug is talking
460657 -    about." ref DRT 4 3872
460658 -
460660 -         ..
460661 -        Scale Managing Daily Record Compounds Complexity of Indexing
460662 -        Context Management Dynamic Work Complex Powerful Knowledge Tool
460663 -
460664 -        Complexity of context management to organize the dynamic record
460665 -        of daily work is explained in POIMS, ref OF 2 0582, and
460666 -        reflects problem of scale cited in Doug Engelbart's 1992 paper
460667 -        on Groupware, reviewed on 991222. ref SDS 21 1596
460669 -         ..
460670 -        As noted above, organic subject structures developed for SDS
460671 -        were reviewed on 890523. ref SDS 1 SQ5L  The complexity of
460672 -        granular indexing organic subject structure for context
460673 -        management was explained on 890523 citing thousands of details
460674 -        that cannot be seen in the "big picture," but which control
460675 -        results to save lives, time, and money. ref SDS 1 428F
460677 -         ..
460678 -        Later, on 891117 limitations of keyword systems were cited,
460679 -        ref SDS 2 0005; an example on 891201 demonstrated keyword
460680 -        methods. ref SDS 3 3W50  SDS organic structures for subject
460681 -        indexing were effective. ref SDS 3 3W8S  On 960322 traditional
460682 -        keyword records management for filing documents was reviewed.
460683 -        ref SDS 9 6544  MIT procedures and practices illustrate keyword
460684 -        methods, for ontology, ref SDS 9 PX54, which SDS tries to
460685 -        strengthen with a process of organic structure to manage
460686 -        document content, ref SDS 9 G65K, and for the purpose of
460687 -        greater reliance on the record to guide daily work that
460688 -        increases accuracy, and so reduces mistakes, and also increases
460689 -        creativity for solving problems.
460691 -         ..
460692 -        SDS subject indexing has 4 major differences from other
460693 -        methods, also, listed on 960322. ref SDS 9 EN87
460695 -         ..
460696 -        On 910418 difficulty of subject indexing explained in Byte
460697 -        article. ref SDS 5 5584  More recently, on 970116 reviewed
460698 -        challenge of managing the complexity of context with organic
460699 -        structure, described as "fractionalized subjects, ref SDS 11
460700 -        1732, and which makes knowledge management a lot of hard work
460701 -        that seems beyond reach, and so people give up using
460702 -        conventional tools and practices.  Another Internet address
460703 -        with helpful ideas is at....
460704 -
460705 -             http://www.atlasti.de/atlasneu.html
460707 -           ..
460708 -          [On 000222 Eric responds. ref SDS 39 8044]
460710 -           ..
460711 -          [On 000223 contributor asks how "education" would fit into
460712 -          a DKR system. ref SDS 40 1254]
460714 -           ..
460715 -          [On 000225 example of meaning drifting apart. ref SDS 41 0897
460717 -           ..
460718 -          [On 000227 Eric cites benefits of organizing Internet.
460719 -          ref SDS 42 0937]
460721 -           ..
460722 -          [On 000229 Jack submits research sources on the mathamatics
460723 -          of knowledge. ref SDS 43 0987]
460725 -           ..
460726 -          [On 000307 a lot of hard work is needed to organize
460727 -          complexity of knowledge. ref SDS 44 5182
460729 -           ..
460730 -          [On 000327 Doug Engelbart skeptical that a breakthrough in
460731 -          knowledge management is not possible. ref SDS 46 4420
460733 -           ..
460734 -          [On 000330 Marcello Hoffman related that no Knowledge
460735 -          Management solution has been developed. ref SDS 47 0713
460737 -           ..
460738 -          [On 000405 Jack urges DKR project to develop ontologies.
460739 -          ref SDS 49 1548
460741 -           ..
460742 -          [...Paul Fernhout relates the difficulty of this work.
460743 -          ref SDS 49 0005
460745 -           ..
460746 -          [On 000407 proposed as agenda item for project meetings.
460747 -          ref SDS 50 4757
460749 -           ..
460750 -          [On 000503 Eric Armstrong reports "knowledge" is not well
460751 -          enough understood to develop Knowledge Management tools,
460752 -          ref SDS 51 5033, explains what we are trying to accomplish to
460753 -          improve communication, collaboration, organize information
460754 -          can be done with email. ref SDS 51 F82E
460756 -           ..
460757 -          [On 000602 Jack advises that Ontologos has implmented an
460758 -          effective "ontology." ref SDS 53 TM7I
460760 -           ..
460761 -          [On 000607 reference in Ontologos to work product turned out
460762 -          to be a mistake; there is no work product showing anyone has
460763 -          created an "engine" to build an ontology, nor is using
460764 -          anything like SDS to manage subjects. ref SDS 55 0001
460766 -           ..
460767 -          [On 000623 Jack proposes concensus ontology for DKR.
460768 -          ref SDS 56 9900, and an engine to create topic maps.
460769 -          ref SDS 56 2915
460771 -           ..
460772 -          [On 001008 Eric Armstrong feels graphical lens technology
460773 -          does not handle complexity well. ref SDS 57 N38W
460775 -           ..
460776 -          [On 001011 suggested research project to develop system for
460777 -          managing organic subject structures. ref SDS 58 FZ4F
460779 -           ..
460780 -          [On 001013 notified Jack about SRI initiative. ref SDS 59
460781 -          5Y4L and, ref SDS 58 M4R8
460783 -           ..
460784 -          [On 001025 Paul Fernhout explains creating an engine that
460785 -          builds a topic map is difficult. ref SDS 60 LR6N
460787 -           ..
460788 -          [On 001220 Jack requested link to this record to review his
460789 -          remarks in context. ref SDS 63 OK4K
460791 -           ..
460792 -          [On 010124 adding 3rd party links using BrowseUp Pandora's
460793 -          Box of risk. ref SDS 64 00FO
460795 -           ..
460796 -          [On 010221 Michael Zack cites subject matter management to
460797 -          create, appy and maintain categories is the most important
460798 -          new role need to perform Knowledge Management. ref SDS 65
460799 -          Q47K
460801 -           ..
460802 -          [On 011003 Eric Armstrong frustrated information overload
460803 -          paralizes productivity; analysis hopeless quagmire,
460804 -          ref SDS 66 EC5N, wants system of catagories. ref SDS 66 SW9L
460806 -           ..
460807 -          [On 020321 Kanisa reports progress organizing and classifying
460808 -          content to improve productivity of call centers where people
460809 -          get technical support. ref SDS 67 V79I
460811 -           ..
460812 -          [On 021108 Bill Gates reported Microsoft is working on a
460813 -          project to enable people to find information stored on
460814 -          computers that becomes useless because nobody can find
460815 -          anything with tools and practices commonly available.
460816 -          ref SDS 68 EF5I
460818 -           ..
460819 -          [On 030531 Gary Johnson discusses need for editing subjects
460820 -          on SDS Control Fields to manage context. ref SDS 69 7K5G
460822 -           ..
460823 -          [On 040102 Gary Johnson proposes new system to make managing
460824 -          lessons learned fast and easier without Control Fields
460825 -          because Control Fields are unfamiliar and disrupt narrative.
460826 -          ref SDS 70 PA68
460828 -           ..
460829 -          [On 040622 Jack cited complexity theory requires tools and
460830 -          practices for making sense of continuous information that
460831 -          overwhelms span of attention with expanding complexity.
460832 -          ref SDS 71 FM5W
460834 -           ..
460835 -          [On 041208 Murray Altheim requests feedback on pilot testing
460836 -          his software project for organizing notes into different
460837 -          subjects that aid writing; a survey illustrates how to engage
460838 -          customers in paying attention to Cyerle for supporting tasks
460839 -          people care about. ref SDS 72 P67J
460841 -           ..
460842 -          [On 060211 Jack reports that the CALO team at SRI has
460843 -          released Open Iris that supports ontology work with a Data
460844 -          Query Builder system. ref SDS 73 R64T
460846 -           ..
460847 -          [On 060523 SRI seminar presents ideas on merging ontologies,
460848 -          ref SDS 74 UK6Q, which compounds the complexity problem Jack
460849 -          raises today. ref SDS 0 L58O
460851 -           ..
460852 -          [On 060713 Jack requested review of a pending paper with
460853 -          ideas on merging ontologies, that continues to encounter the
460854 -          complexity problem. ref SDS 75 JX4M
460856 -           ..
460857 -          [On 060809 patient coordinator described advantages using
460858 -          technology and practices that organize documents to help
460859 -          doctors make sense of complex patient history in order to
460860 -          prepare 2nd opinions on diagnosis and treatment. ref SDS 76
460861 -          NN6F
460863 -           ..
460864 -          [On 060831 people use only 5% of Microsoft features because
460865 -          Help is hard to use; subjects are listed by Microsoft
460866 -          engineers in the Help index differently from the way
460867 -          customers look to find help using the program. ref SDS 77
460868 -          KA9H
460870 -           ..
460871 -          [On 070126 case study people giving up on context management,
460872 -          beyond reach. ref SDS 78 9Q7K
460874 -           ..
460875 -          [On 070511 context management constructs multiple
460876 -          accounts with organic structure in Subject Index, and
460877 -          assigns to Control Fields in SDS records for finding
460878 -          specific details, and assembling multiple views for trend
460879 -          analysis to support decision support and continual
460880 -          learning. ref SDS 79 0001
460882 -           ..
460883 -          [On 070729 Jack cites another book "Everything is
460884 -          Miscellaneous" by David Weinberger; seems like restatement of
460885 -          Pandora's Box; Jack does not say how Weinberger solves the
460886 -          problem of complexity and confusion presented by subject
460887 -          indexing, ref SDS 80 IB5G, per above. ref SDS 0 L58O
460889 -         ..
460890 -        On 960322 SDS helps assuage risk from complexity of subjects by
460891 -        focusing attention. ref SDS 9 7749
460893 -         ..
460894 -        Pandora's Box is reviewed in relation to the knowledge
460895 -        management dilemma on 991108. ref SDS 19 0795
460897 -         ..
460898 -        On 000120 Pandora's Box was cited as challenge to consider in
460899 -        attempting to enhance power to create knowledge. ref SDS 22
460900 -        2345
460902 -         ..
460903 -        Pandora's Box was used on 000208 to illustrate complexity of
460904 -        connections in human thought that "boggle" the conscious mind,
460905 -        if not managed properly. ref SDS 30 2940  Complexity of
460906 -        organizing information is another problem of scale, which Eric
460907 -        cited on 000125 for linking. ref SDS 23 3975
460909 -     ..
460910 -    Eric Armstrong wrote asking (which is omitted from the record)...
460911 -
460912 -        Which idea did Robert Rosen's papers examin...
460913 -
460914 -        •  category-theoretic models
460915 -        •  relational knowledge bases
460916 -        •  represenations of complex systems
460917 -        •  all of the above?
460919 -     ..
460920 -    Jack Park submitted ref DRT 5 0001 explaining Robert Rosen worked
460921 -    at Chicago in the 50's on the idea of a Relational Biology,
460922 -    contining work by Raschevsky who noted that analysing a living
460923 -    cell, did not yield knowledge on putting one together.  Reductionist
460924 -    thinking was not going to provide the answers we were looking for.
460925 -    ref DRT 5 2530
460927 -     ..
460928 -    Rosen developed mathematics of component relations, using the 4
460929 -    Aristotelian causalities and ties everything together with category
460930 -    theory.  The book, Life Itself (and a new one published just after
460931 -    his death, Essays on Life Itself) discusses and develops this
460932 -    mathematics.  At least, it develops it to the level of a
460933 -    theoretical understanding.  Jack understands that nobody has yet
460934 -    mapped his thinking to, say, the mathematics of a single-cell
460935 -    animal.  There's a helluva lot of thinking going on in that
460936 -    direction, however.  Raschevsky started with graph theory,
460937 -    graduated to organismic set theory, then passed away.  Rosen took
460938 -    that work to category theory. ref DRT 5 8178
460940 -     ..
460941 -    Jack's research shows that things really are related, and it is the
460942 -    mathematics of those relations that jumps to a high level of
460943 -    maturity.  Simple relational algebra seems a place to start, but
460944 -    discovering the topology of those relations is something else
460945 -    again. ref DRT 5 6156
460946 -
460947 -        This analysis supports comments by Morris on 970116 about the
460948 -        complexity of subject management. ref SDS 11 1732
460949 -
460950 -
460951 -
460952 -
460953 -
460954 -
460955 -
460956 -
460957 -
460958 -
460959 -
460960 -
460961 -
4610 -