CONTACTS
0201 - General Electric Consumer Service
020101 - Phoenix, AZ
020102 - Mr. Pete Anderson; GE Factory Service Technician #476
020103 - GE Consumer and Industrial Department
SUBJECTS
Refrigerator GE Service Fix Freezer Defrost Drain Overflow Problem
0403 -
0403 - ..
0404 - Summary/Objective
0405 -
040501 - Follow up ref SDS 1 0000.
040502 -
040503 - GE service technician discovered ice build up in freezer trough. This
040504 - was cleared and the system seems to work corretly now. Invoice was
040505 - more than twice the amount quoted by GE. ref SDS 0 1F5M
040506 -
040507 - [On 050616 about 6 months later same problem occurred again.
040508 - ref SDS 3 0001
040510 - ..
040511 - [On 050620 service rep clears problem, and concludes design flaw.
040512 - ref SDS 4 VX5I
040514 - ..
040515 - [On 070105 illustration scalable knowledge from organizational
040516 - memory support for order, structure, and pattern telling the story
040517 - to make sense of complexity that helps people solve wicked
040518 - problems by delivering anytime, anywhere intelligence on the
040519 - Internet. ref SDS 6 EI44
040521 - ..
040522 - [On 140628 2002 someone made contact from SDS records on Internet,
040523 - requested more information about fixing problem of frozen drain
040524 - lines in GE refrigerator. ref SDS 7 9Z60
040526 - ..
040527 - [On 170214 0931 received letter from MondySavingPro.com
040528 - explaining Home Warranty Insurance to cover all routine
040529 - home and appliance repairs for cost of $300 to $500
040530 - annually. ref SDS 8 EM73
040531 -
040532 - https://www.moneysavingpro.com/home-warranty/
040533 -
040534 -
040535 -
040536 -
040538 - ..
0406 -
0407 -
0408 - Progress
0409 -
040901 - GE Customer Support....................... 800 432 2737
040902 -
040903 - $59.95
040905 - ..
040906 - plus parts and labor.
040908 - ..
040909 - Confirmation number: 015255858
040911 - ..
040912 - Pete arrived to work on the refrigerator.
040913 -
040914 - [On 050808 Pete performed repair service on a replacement
040915 - refrigerator. ref SDS 5 RY4Y
040917 - ..
040918 - He initially thought the problem could be cleared with a simple
040919 - adjustment to user controls. He opened the refrigerator and found the
040920 - problem of water accumulating on the bottom of the unit, reported
040921 - yesterday to GE in scheduling service today. ref SDS 1 PQ3P
040923 - ..
040924 - Pete tried a few adjustments, and then said the problem is more
040925 - complex. He went out to his truck and brought some tools.
040927 - ..
040928 - Pete pulled the refrigerator out from the wall, and then he opened the
040929 - unit and he removed food items stored on the shelving sufficient to
040930 - remove the top shelf.
040931 -
040932 - [On 170214 0931 received letter from MondySavingPro.com
040933 - explaining Home Warranty Insurance to cover all routine
040934 - home and appliance repairs for cost of $300 to $500
040935 - annually. ref SDS 8 EM73
040936 -
040937 - https://www.moneysavingpro.com/home-warranty/
040939 - ..
040940 - There is a utility panel inside the refrigerator and below the freezer
040941 - compartment. Pete used an electric screwdriver to remove the panel
040942 - revealing a number of what looked like electrical cables. Pete
040943 - inspected below the panel, and the area exposed by removing the panel,
040944 - which is inside the refrigerator and below the freezer unit. He then
040945 - replaced this panel. There are 3 - 5 screws to accomplish this task.
040947 - ..
040948 - Next, Pete disassembled the unit from inside the freezer compartment.
040949 - This requires unplugging a four or six prong electrical connection to
040950 - the ice maker. There are two (2) screws to loosen in order to release
040951 - the ice maker from the side of the freezer compartment. The water
040952 - line to the ice maker seems to be a friction connection which simply
040953 - pulls loose.
040955 - ..
040956 - After removing the ice maker in the freezer compartment, Pete removed
040957 - the entire back panel inside the freezer. There is a small square
040958 - sub-panel in the top left corner of the freezer compartment. Pete
040959 - removed the sub-panel by removing a single screw. After the small
040960 - sub-panel was removed, Pete removed the entire back panel in the
040961 - freezer compartment. This was difficult work because of a tight fit.
040962 - There are no screws or other fastenings to disengage. Pete struggled
040963 - for a few minutes, and finally the back panel came loose somehow. The
040964 - task requires prior knowledge from training and experience to service
040965 - properly without causing damage.
040967 - ..
040968 - Removing the back panel exposed the freezer coils that maintain unit
040969 - temperature. Pete pointed out a trough below the freezer coils, and
040970 - along the base at the rear of the freezer component.
040972 - ..
040973 - Pete explained the product design. Periodic condensation from the
040974 - freezer coils drips into the trough. The bottom of the trough is
040975 - elevated at both sides of the refrigerator so that condensate flows to
040976 - a drain in the center. A plastic pipeline from the drain empties into
040977 - a drip pan at the bottom of the refrigerator next to the freezer
040978 - motor, which is sealed off by a plastic panel and so is is not visible
040979 - from inside the food compartment. Pete explained that heat from the
040980 - refrigeration motor is sufficient to evaporate the rate of condensate
040981 - that normally accumulates in the drip pan. As a result, the process
040982 - is entirely transparent, requiring no maintenance by the customer.
040984 - ..
040985 - This design fits customer experience of never having encountered this
040986 - particular problem in 50 years using refrigerators.
040988 - ..
040989 - Pete showed, however, that in this case there is ice buildup in the
040990 - drip trough. Ice prevents condensation from the freezer coils
040991 - collecting in the drip trough, and escaping through the drain.
040992 - Eventually enough moisture accumulates to overflow the trough into the
040993 - user portion of the refrigerator, and it leaks to the bottom of the
040994 - refrigerator, causing a big mess, as reported on 041026. ref SDS 1
040995 - IL55
040996 -
040997 - [On 050616 about 6 months later same problem occurred again.
040998 - ref SDS 4 VE5N Service rep concludes design flaw. ref SDS 4 VX5I
041000 - ..
041001 - Next, Pete worked on the outside of the refrigerator to remove the
041002 - panel at the back of the unit. This exposes the moter that runs the
041003 - refrigerator, and related utilities. He pointed out the drain pan
041004 - where water from the drip pan in the freezer should be draining. He
041005 - noticed there is no moisture in the drip pan, which confirms his
041006 - theory that ice build up in the freezer compartment trough prevents
041007 - condensation from draining, and so causes overflow inside the food
041008 - compartment.
041010 - ..
041011 - Pete asked for some baking soda. He mixed a small amount of baking
041012 - soda with hot water from the faucet to produce about one cup of
041013 - mixture.
041014 -
041015 - [On 050620 on subsequent service only hot water was needed to
041016 - clear the ice plug from the drain. ref SDS 4 VX8M
041018 - ..
041019 - He poured the mixture through a funnel into the drip trough. Mixture
041020 - flowed to the drain the center of the trough, and then dropped
041021 - vertically to the drain pan at the bottom of the refrigerator. This
041022 - procedure was used for both ends of the drip trough to remove ice
041023 - build up. It took about 2 minutes to pour this cup of hot water and
041024 - baking soda mixture to clear ice build up in the condensate trough.
041026 - ..
041027 - Next, Pete fed a small diamter tube into the drain line from inside
041028 - the freezer compartment down to the drip pan. He said this is done as
041029 - a precaution to clear any possible affirmative blockages.
041030 -
041031 - [On 050616 on a subsequent occassion when the refrigerator was
041032 - leaking, Dave related this requirement for servicing GE
041033 - refrigerators. ref SDS 3 7X8O
041035 - ..
041036 - Pete checked inside the food compartment and confirmed the bottom was
041037 - dry, indicating there was no overflow. He walked to the back of the
041038 - unit and confirmed that the water had drained into the pan at the back
041039 - of the unit. He futher noted that the drip pan contained only water.
041040 - There was no foreigh substance observed that might have been blocking
041041 - the drain line. He concluded the only problem was ice build up in the
041042 - condensate trough, and that the problem is now fully resolved by
041043 - spending 2 minutes to pour hot water mixed with baking soda into the
041044 - trough.
041046 - ..
041047 - Pete advised that customers should maintain the drip trough on this
041048 - model GE refrigerator in accordance with requirements in the owner's
041049 - product manual. He said that rather than remove the back panel of the
041050 - freezer compartment, as he did, and which can be kind of tricky, per
041051 - above, ref SDS 0 YQ9P, customers can spend 2 minutes to pour a cup of
041052 - hot water mixed with baking soda using a funnel through the port slots
041053 - in the freezer compartment at both ends of the drip trough.
041055 - ..
041056 - Pete looked through the customer's product manual received with the
041057 - refrigerator. He could not find this procedure nor anything that
041058 - discusses fixing leaks due to a plugged or frozen drip pan, drain
041059 - line, etc. There were no diagrams, and nothing listing nor explaining
041060 - customer maintenance for the work Pete performed today.
041061 -
041062 - [On 050616 Kathy in Home Depot Appliances had never encountered
041063 - this problem that requires customer maintenance and expense.
041064 - ref SDS 3 LB45
041066 - ..
041067 - [On 050616 Paul assistant manager at Home Depot had not
041068 - encountered this problem. ref SDS 3 LC39
041070 - ..
041071 - [On 050616 Ed at Friedman's Appliances had never encountered
041072 - this problem with refrigerators. ref SDS 3 LC44
041074 - ..
041075 - [On 050616 Dave Little who orders service on refrigerators was
041076 - familiar with this problem in GE products. ref SDS 3 7X6O
041078 - ..
041079 - Pete said that GE mechanics use a different manual, which he recalls
041080 - says that customers should service this problem. Pete went out to his
041081 - service vehicle. When he returned, Pete advised that the version of
041082 - the product manual GE provides service mechanics does not say this is
041083 - a customer responsibility.
041085 - ..
041086 - Pete indicated this problem does not happen often enough to represent
041087 - a major expense to customers. Maybe that is why GE does not have
041088 - literature in the customer's manual that describes the problem, and
041089 - how to resolve it. Pete noted that home appliances like
041090 - refrigerators, televisions, stoves, microwaves, etc. typically do not
041091 - require a lot of maintenance by the customer, except for routine
041092 - cleaning. He feels that disassembling the freezer panel requires
041093 - trained, and experienced service mechanics.
041095 - ..
041096 - This record suggests a manufacturing defect, since if GE is selling
041097 - refrigerators that require customers to perform routine maintenance
041098 - beyond cleaning, then this fact should be disclosed by sales people,
041099 - and by GE advertising, so that customers can shop for more friendly
041100 - products.
041102 - ..
041103 - Pete said not to worry; this will probably never happen again.
041105 - ..
041106 - This work took about 45 minutes.
041108 - ..
041109 - Pete said the invoice is $144.95.
041111 - ..
041112 - We reviewed the record talking with Carrie yesterday who scheduled the
041113 - work based on a quote that the maximum labor cost was $59.95, plus the
041114 - cost of parts. Since no parts were supplied, the cost should be
041115 - $59.95.
041117 - ..
041118 - Pete advised that Carrie explained GE pricing incorrectly. He said
041119 - that the GE charges $59.95 simply for coming to inspect the problem,
041120 - and then if GE performs any work, there is an additional charge of $85
041121 - per hour for the time required to perform the work.
041122 -
041123 - [On 041029 talked to customer service, and they said
041124 - customers are not quoted the price for fixing the problem
041125 - until the technician arrives on the scene. ref SDS 2 GI6N
041127 - ..
041128 - This conflicts with Carrie's quote yesterday, who said that $59.95 is
041129 - the maximum cost no matter how long the mechanic takes to perform the
041130 - work. ref SDS 1 PQ3P
041132 - ..
041133 - Pete said that disputes about payment should be handled with the
041134 - sales department.
041136 - ..
041137 - Pete submitted invoice....
041138 -
041139 - 349006
041140 -
041141 - Technician #.........
041142 -
041143 - 125 23 0476
041145 - ..
041146 - Product..............
041147 -
041148 - GE Hotpoint
041150 - ..
041151 - Model................
041152 -
041153 - GTS201CNAWW
041155 - ..
041156 - Serial #.............
041157 -
041158 - HD041826
041160 - ..
041161 - Installation date....
041162 -
041163 - 020725
041165 - ..
041166 - Reason for service....
041167 -
041168 - Condensates and leaks at the bottom
041170 - ..
041171 - Labor........................................... $85.00
041172 -
041173 - Adjust frz drain through funnel
041175 - ..
041176 - Home Call Charge................................ $59.95
041178 - ..
041179 - Total........................................... $144.95
041180 -
041181 - [On 041029 talked to customer service, and they said
041182 - customers are not quoted the price for fixing the problem
041183 - until the technician arrives on the scene. ref SDS 2 GI6N
041184 -
041185 -
041186 -
041188 - ..
0412 -
0413 -
0414 - 1521
0415 -
041501 - Called GE
041502 -
041503 - GE Customer Support....................... 800 432 2737
041505 - ..
041506 - Talked to Danny.
041508 - ..
041509 - Asked about confirmation
041510 -
041511 - 015255858
041512 -
041513 - ...and invoice
041514 -
041515 - 349006
041517 - ..
041518 - Danny said that Carrie made a mistake yesterday by not quoting the $80
041519 - charge for fixing the refrigerator in addition to a $60 charge to
041520 - visit the premisis to perform work.
041522 - ..
041523 - Danny recommended calling...
041525 - ..
041526 - Consumer Relations.....
041527 -
041528 - 800 386 1215
041529 -
041531 - ..
041532 - Have to call them tomorrow because this unit is in New York, and so is
041533 - now closed.
041535 - ..
041536 - The service scheduling unit, where Danny and Carrie work, is in San
041537 - Jose Costa Rica.
041538 -
041539 - [On 041029 talked to customer service, and they said customers
041540 - are not quoted the price for fixing the problem until the
041541 - technician arrives on the scene. ref SDS 2 GI6N
041542 -
041543 -
041544 -
041545 -
041546 -
041547 -
041548 -
041549 -
041550 -
0416 -
Distribution. . . . See "CONTACTS"