Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:35:25 -0400

From:   Howard Liu

To:     "''"

Subject:   Minutes 000525 Meeting at SRI

Here are the minutes of the May 25, 2000 OHS/DKR meeting at SRI taken by Howard Liu, unofficially self-designated for the day. Please, nevertheless, send all corrections and clarifications to his attention at

Thank you.




Howard Liu

Minutes: May 25, 2000 OHS/DKR Meeting at SRI

Taken by Howard Liu


(according to Mary Coppernoll): Su-Ling Yee, Mary Coppernoll, Warren Stringer, Jack Park, John Deneen, Joe Williams, Howard Liu, Lee Iverson

John Deneen hopes to get a copy of open source license as benchmark

Lee tried to track down pointers in archive for key technologies discussed

Several interesting target nodes we can build on

As a portal for this stuff, represents a huge chunk of interesting infrastructure. has wide variety of tools to do things we deal with: xml tools, etc., virtually all Java-based. {java.xml} has ANT---software construction; Alexandria---software development; Turbine---Web application; Jetspeed---Collaboration portal---but not as turnkey as zope is, though zope is not ideal; going next step with zope takes effort. Jetspeed portal environment: enterprise app info: homepage for intranet, where users have own areas to share stuff. But zope portal is not as extensible and rock-solid than as hoped. Extend squish-dot---Lee's current goal, rather than to live off zope portal. Jetspeed is not there yet.

Jack watches Apache and enhydra projects, and like to see one to emerge as java dot.

Lee observes enhydra lacks turnkey high-level toolset, but instead concentrates on the low-level infrastructure stuff.

Jack: Enhydra gives you Borland Jbuilder on its CD, and lets you build web sites. Enhydra lets you do wizards. But what a waste they're focusing on EJBs. Enhydra accomplishes Doug's transcoding.

Lee: Jetspeed's portlets does the same.

Jack: Doesn't zope let you declare a project?

Lee: Zope exposes Python persistent objects that backed up by db and versioned and administrator control to flush old stuff over 30 days anywhere in the tree. Dtml. Construction of a site consists of marshalling object types together. Each tool db infrastructure is page and object oriented and not node oriented.

Warren: Apache toolset: ANT, .Jetspeed.

Lee: Bellendorf, key man behind Apache and CollabNet and Tigris.

Lee and Jack agree that ArgoUML is suited for our project.

Lee: xmlc in enhydra is useful.

Lee: MonsterDOM: Persistent, multi-user DOM: versioning issue, transactions issues; authentication issue; content sharing (vs. replication) deep support for entity-level support for documents. Everything is done in situ, no check-in/check-out.

Lee: OZONE: XOQL: Perl/SQL mapping DOM. Weakness: Connection to external RDBMS.

Jack: XDBM has persistent DOM.

Jack: Push for Postgress---a research oo db with sql interface, Mysql, msql, Berkeley. Another java RDBMS Turbo(?)SQL open source.

Jack: Enhydra bought out InstantDB and making it open source. (Perhaps, Apache will buy out Ozone? J )

Lee: xml-based rpc technology: Corba---backed by ISO, heavyweight and painful; XML-RPC---xml wrapper for doing remote procedure calls, lightweight and limited; SOAP---welterweight; Linda/Tspace---never caught on; OAA---brittleness of CORBA is solved by it, partly open source; JINI.

Lee: Browsers: Mozilla: apps inside browser---download M16 and see source code.; full xml, css, xslt integration; xul; M16;

Lee: Request: Volunteers to eval and match btwn technologies and Eric's requirements 0.6 (0.7).

Howard: enhydra: xmlc Java-xml interconnection, dods: post to list

Lee: webKB theory of category editing tools

Joe: Joe: ohs_cds.htm

Lutris: enhydra: WAP Mapping, external for transcoding

Write Doug: what's product handbook

Get Eugene to connect us with Lutris.